Welcome to The Briercliffe Society Forum

I know Mel.
For Colne Particular Baptists the IGI batch numbers start at 1778 for births and my guy died in 1769----all good fun.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Glorias Kippax tree is now on the site at http://www.briercliffesociety.co.uk/Family%20Trees.htm
Thanks Gloria.

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Mel

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Gloria, do you have an Alice Kippax marrying a Joshua Sutcliffe?

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Mel

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Haven't got an Alice Kippax at all Mel

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Ok, thanks Gloria. It was a long shot really. I have a strug Sutcliffe line in Briercliffe that I am trying to tie into the Sutcliffes that I have on file. I 99% sure I know where they fit but that 1% is enough to stop me from assuming.

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Mel

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What details do you have on them Mel ? and I will have a root through my bits of paper.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

On my database I have
Alice Kippax, dob 2nd Dec 1802, place of birth Lane House, baptism place Haggate, father James, mother Nancy.
Alice Kippax, dob 26th June 1805, place of birth Catlow Gt Marsden, baptism place Haggate, father John, mother Mary.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

It all stems from a Nanny Sutcliffe who married Abraham Atkinson in 1850. She is on the 1851 living with his family and a 'visitor' Joshua Sutcliffe. I'm guessing that Joshua is her son. Next door is a Hartley family also with a Sutcliffe though this time a grandchild. In 1861, the 2 Sutcliffe kids are living with the Atkinsons but listed as son and daughter and named Atkinson. When Joshua married in 1862 his name was Sutcliffe but no father on the certificate. On the IGI I have found a marriage for Joshua Sutcliffe (Nanny's father?) and Alice Kippax. Then a few years later, again on the IGI, there is a marriage for a Alice Sutcliffe to a John Hartley. In the Haggate burials on the site, there is a burial in 1824 for Joshua Sutcliffe. In 1841, Nanny is living with the Hartleys.
The census refs are:

1841
HO107/506/15 folio 24 pg 1
Lane House

1851
HO107/2251folio 118 pg 42
Hill Lane

1861
Rg9/3073 folio 78 pg 6
Higher House, Briercliffe.

The IGI entries are
JOSHUA SUTCLIFFE
Marriages:
Spouse: ALICE KIPPAX Family
Marriage: 22 JUL 1821 Burnley, Lancashire, England
Batch No M005201

ALICE SUTCLIFFE
Marriages:
Spouse: JOHN HARTLEY Family
Marriage: 15 DEC 1828 Burnley, Lancashire, England
Batch No M005209

I have a Joshua Sutcliffe in my file who was born in 1796. I think he is the father of Nanny but I can't pin it! Come to think about it, I'm not sure if I have checked Haggate births for Nanny. Will do that now.

_________________
Mel

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5 Oct 1821 Nanny daughter of Joshua and Alice Sutcliffe of Finemoorfoot in Briercliffe.

Still doesn't prove it's the Joshua I want it to be though!

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Mel

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I have a Kippax I am struggling with, and though I cannot 100% prove it is him, there is no one else it can be, so that should be proof enough, but it doesn't work like that does it?
I will have a root through yours and see if I can see anything any different, doubtful but worth a try.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

The marriage at source won't show father in 1821 will it. Damn, frustrated!
Will it show abode? That might help?

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Mel

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One of the two Alice Kippaxs could be the spouse of Joshua Sutcliffe snr. Not that it gets you anywhere.
Have you got Joshua jnr birth cert? is the father on there?
Name: Joshua Sutcliffe
Year of Registration: 1842
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Burnley
County: Lancashire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 21
Page: 221

Could Nanny have married before to a Sutcliffe?
Could Nanny therefore be Hartley, hence the two grandchildren?
If not then Joshua jnr could have been named after his grandfather who married Alice Kippax.
Another thought, Alice b1802 could be Nanny's mother, as Alice's mothers name was Nancy, and could have named her daughter similarly.
I think you are definitely on the right lot.
Sorry if I am going over something you have already found out, just juggling a few thoughts about in my head.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Two Alice's?

I ordered a birth for Joshua 1842...there are two entries and I ordered the wrong one. The other is now on order.
I have a marriage for this Joshua in 1862 to Ellen Foster. The entry for father is left blank making me think I am on the right lines and that Nanny is his mother and he was illegitimate.

I have a copy of Nanny's marriage certificate to Abraham Atkinson. Her father is named as Joshua Sutcliffe and she was a spinster.

I think my query has become who is Joshua, father of Nanny.

I have an entry for a Joshua in 1796. This is the IGI entry but I have viewed it at source and it gives an address as Yeomans.

JOSHUA SUTCLIFFE
Birth: 19 NOV 1796 Particular Baptist, Colne, Lancashire, England
Parents:
Father: JOSEPH SUTCLIFFE Family
Mother: PEGGY
Batch No. C091751

I believe this Joshua is the brother of William who is currently at the top of my tree. The question is...is this the same Joshua who is fatherof Nanny?

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Mel

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If you go to the thread earlier on today I found births for two Alice Kippaxs on my database.
Bang goes my idea Nanny may have been married before. But did she have two children before she got married to Abraham Atkinson? I think she definitely had one, Joshua, but what about the girl next door in 1851 census?

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

That girl is living with the Atkinsons in 1861 and 1871 so, yes, I think Nanny had 2 kids.

I didn't make the Hartley link until last night when I was ferreting around.

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Mel

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